What is the Lo Shu Square? What is magic square math? How do you use Lo Shu magic square?

[Cecil Lee]

-- Extracted from a messaged posted to us privately via e-mail seeking help from Geomancy.net on the Compass School Feng Shui --
1. Attached please find graphics: Graphics of 2B.GIF, PAGE4A.JPG, PAGE4B.JPG scanned in by the user to make it easier to understand the question, credits to whichever book it originated from.)
-- Start of Message --
To: Support @ Geomancy.Net
Subject:
Re: Questions about the yijing-Loshu square
Date: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:30:06 +0100
From: A User - snipped -
Hello :-)
Saw information about you and your work about the loshu square/ yijing ,would be nice if you could help me with my questions, its difficult to find an answer , i searched in the internet very extensively and in books.. but with no success and when there a not one but several answers..
My question is as follows:
in relation to the i Ging cycle later and earlier heaven : earlier heaven: the movement is the following: (FU HSI TRIGRAM, FILENAME: PAGE4A.JPG). Refer to graphic
The movement is determine by the following (FILENAME: 2B.GIF) where the lowest line determines the movement left site is counterclockwise and the other v.v in the fu hsi arrangement.

What about the later heaven ? (KING WEN, FILENAME: PAGE4B.JPG)
1 = Kan; 2 = Kun; 3 = Chen; 4 = Sun; 5; 6 = Quian; 7= Tui; 8= gen; 9= Li;
a) is it that the left site ( 9,4,3,8 ) is counterclockwise and right site is clockwise (
2,7,6,1) or that 3,6,8,1 is counterclockwise and 7,2,9,4 is clockwise ?
b) is there also a movement for numbers and not only for triagrams or are the mixed together polarity of numbers (black and white diots of the luo shu ) and triarams?
c) and when--- numbers are mixed what then is the result clockwise or counterclockwise
movement ?
e.g. 8 (gen) yin and 9 (li) yang ? or 4 is yin and 6 is yin ?
Hope you can give me a bit clarification :-)
Be well, hope to hear from you!
Best wishes and have a good time
Kindest Regards,
-- user name removed --

[Cecil Lee]

Dear Anon,
Thank you for your query. Just like to let you know that the question you have posted is actually very interesting and we would like to re-post your message into the forum (As an anonymous user to present it as learning resource).
The reason why you had difficulty in finding answer to this is not many people are aware that Eight House is a Compass Theory derived from the Flying Star concept.
Anyway, just to answer your question:-
The later heaven sequence has a different method of presenting the 8 trigrams. It is actually derived from the Flying Star Theory.
where you get:-
4 9 2
3 5 7
8 1 6
or
4 9 2
3 ? 7
8 1 6
Which is exactly the layout of the later heavenly sequence trigram use in one version of the bagua.
Please see the graphic base1.gif
(THIS IMAGE IS COPYRIGHT, EXTRACTED FROM Geomancy.net The Flying STAR COURSE, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO USE IT UNLESS WITH OUR EXPLICT PERMISSION.) It is used here in this e-mail for your information so that you can better understand how it flies without having to explain in text. (c) Robert Lee, Geomancy.Net - Center for Applied Feng Shui Research
The only difference between the base1.gif and the eight trigram you used is that the 5 is missing as it is not necessary in the 8 trigrams.
This forms the new eight trigram layout which is termed the later Heavenly Sequence which helps to explain the 24 Mountains concept in the Flying Star Theory.
Therefore, it is nothing to do with what you had mentioned that it flies in odd or even number, but rather derived from the same flying star theory that presented the 8 trigram in a Heavenly Sequence. This layout is used frequently with a Flying Star 24 mountain sequence.
As for the yin & yang issue, just refer each of the trigram to the moon which you had, and you will know which is yin & yang etc.
Hope that helps.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee

Quote

-- Extracted from a messaged
posted to us privately via
e-mail seeking help from
Geomancy.net on the Compass
School Feng Shui --
1. Attached please find
graphics: Graphics of 2B.GIF,
PAGE4A.JPG, PAGE4B.JPG scanned
in by the user to make it
easier to understand the
question, credits to whichever
book it originated from.)
-- Start of Message --
To: Support @ Geomancy.Net
Subject:
Re: Questions about the
yijing-Loshu square
Date: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002
13:30:06 +0100
From: A User - snipped -
Hello :-)
Saw information about you and
your work about the loshu
square/ yijing ,would be nice
if you could help me with my
questions, its difficult to
find an answer , i searched in
the internet very extensively
and in books.. but with no
success and when there a not
one but several answers..
My question is as follows:
in relation to the i Ging
cycle later and earlier heaven
: earlier heaven: the movement
is the following: (FU HSI
TRIGRAM, FILENAME:
PAGE4A.JPG). Refer to graphic
The movement is determine by
the following (FILENAME:
2B.GIF) where the lowest line
determines the movement left
site is counterclockwise and
the other v.v in the fu hsi
arrangement.

What about the later heaven ?
(KING WEN, FILENAME:
PAGE4B.JPG)
1 = Kan; 2 = Kun; 3 = Chen; 4
= Sun; 5; 6 = Quian; 7= Tui;
8= gen; 9= Li;
a) is it that the left site (
9,4,3,8 ) is counterclockwise
and right site is clockwise (
2,7,6,1) or that 3,6,8,1 is
counterclockwise and 7,2,9,4
is clockwise ?
b) is there also a movement
for numbers and not only for
triagrams or are the mixed
together polarity of numbers
(black and white diots of the
luo shu ) and triarams?
c) and when--- numbers are
mixed what then is the result
clockwise or counterclockwise
movement ?
e.g. 8 (gen) yin and 9 (li)
yang ? or 4 is yin and 6 is
yin ?
Hope you can give me a bit
clarification :-)
Be well, hope to hear from
you!
Best wishes and have a good
time
Kindest Regards,
-- user name removed --

[Cecil Lee]

From: (Name removed)
Subject: Re: questions about the yijing-Loshu square
Date:
Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:48:47 +0100
To: Support @ Geomancy.Net
Dear Mr. Lee,
thanks for your fast reply and your instructions... to clarify my problem with this topic:
I know that my questions are very technical - want to understand a bit of
the physical technical functions, but i am not a scientific engnieer or
mathematic guy or something like that..
so when i understand you in the right way.
The loshu is connected with the wen arrangement - cammann Schuyler" The
origin of the Triagramm Circles in Ancient China, the museum of far Eastern
Antiqities Bulletin No 62 Stockholm 19990" says that this is a big mistake
of history to think that, i read so many literature, but this is indead the
only author who said this everyone else wrote that the wen cycle belongs to
the loshu the hetu to the Fuxi arrangement.
How does the loshu functions then?
There are even and odd numbers - yin and yang - yang is clockwise and yin is
counterclockwise. this is a fengh shui message. does this also count for
the yijing (later heaven) when you speak of movements.
so the numbers of the loshu represent triagrams for expamle Kun= 2 and
Quian = 6
two triagrams form an hexagram and within this you have a direction marked
as a loshu number .. for example Tui and Tui = 7/7 is Hexagram 58
belongs to the loshu number 7 according the eight houses in relation to the
loshu square.
you can categorise the 64 Hexagram to the eight houses
for example 6 is (hexagram number 1,44,33,12,20,23,35,14)
1 is (29,60,3,63,49,55,36,7)
and so on..
but other people say this is wrong only wetern thinking has nothing to do
with eastern origins:
6 is ( 1,12,25,6,33,44,13,10 hexagram) or 1 is (5,8,3,29,39,48,63,60)
always the second triagram or line.. above the lower ..
What is true there ?
=================================
Movement in clockwise / counterclockwise direction - cyclic interdependence
what does cause the movement the loshu number (even/odd)-number polarity
or the triagram ? ( the sex in the wen cycle, the lowest line as primary
basis as in the Fuxi)
or a micture of both?
when i have then two triagrams there can be different options- as expressed
in the biagrams-
yin-yin, yang-yang yin-yang yang -yin)
first -second line..
yin-yin ( example loshu number:first line/number, second line/number 2-8,
6-4) is countercklockwise ?
yang- yang (7-9, 1-3) vice versa?
what about yin-yang , yang- yin composition?
Would be nice to hear from you soon .
Best wihes and regards from here
be well
Yours

[Cecil Lee]

From:
Support @ Geomancy.Net
Subject:
Re: questions about the yijing-Loshu square
Date:
Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:50:02 GMT
To: (name removed)
Dear Anon,
I believe, the question you are asking is actually based on the I-Ching (yijing) 64 Trigrams
whether the 64 Trigrams should be laid out based on the arrangement
of the Fu Xi or King Wen.
My response to the question:
You see Eight House Trigram has two layouts Fu Xi (Later Heavenly
Sequence) and King Wen (Former Heavenly Sequence) layout. Actually,
both are used for different purpose and should not be mixed up.
1. Fu Xi (Later Heavenly Sequence) is derived using the Flying Star
theory concept / Luo Shu squares and how it flies and is extensively
used as a concept for the Time Dimension Feng Shui.
2. King Wen (Former Heavenly Sequence) is in its pures form of Heaven
and Earth, Thunder and Lighting. Which is often used in Talisman and
in to ward off Sha Qi. It is also used as the principle in deriving
the I-Ching 64 combinations.
Thus, when you are refering to the I-Ching you will be using the King
Wen's layout of the Eight Trigrams, and when you are using Flying
Star you will refer to the Fu Xi's layout of the Eight Trigram.
Two are of completely different issues and concepts thus, should
NEVER and not be mixed like what you have been asking.
Therefore, the format of the I-Ching that is correct is the one using the King Wen
layout.
If I am not wrong, having heard my answers to the two Eight Trigram and breakdown of each sequence of the bagua, that will answer your question you are looking for.
Since you are interested in I-Ching you should be looking for " Book of Changes " by James Legge (English), Richard Willhelm (Germany). They are actually missionaries in China, and they successfully translated the original book of changes into English and in German. So it is extensively comprehensive. So if you are really
interested in learning the real I-Ching (ie so as not to be misled or
learn the wrong information.) I would strongly recommend you hunt for
books written by them (although I have looked thru some of his interpretations and felt that some of them may not be as accurately translated due to the interpretation from Mandarin to English) However, James book come close to translated books available in
English for a much better understanding.
The famous Chinese sage - Confucious said that "If he could have lived for another Fifty years, he would try to spend time to understand more about the I-Ching". This
shows how complex this theory is and it is not possible to be explained in one or two sentences.
Furthermore, the person who discovered the human gnome or DNA is based on the I-Ching 64 hex. And also, the discover of computer binary code said that he had found this idea from this 64 hex codes.
So it is best you get the correct books, and not any of those books
written by western authors (especially those who do not understand Mandarin ie. Chinese) i.e. (sorry
not to speak ill of any western authors who had written I-Ching book; but in my opinion those who have a Chinese background may most likely have a better advantage in this area of interpretation if they are studious enough to interpret them direct from the original mandarin source - but still very very difficult.
This is because the book of changes is so complex, personally having
read the original text and the translated text, many essence are
still lost during the translation despite the very exhaustive efforts
of the two missionaries who had done a translated version. As the
Chinese Couplets and etc used can be interpretated in many ways. So
if you really want to go in depth into this ancient art you would be
better fare much better if you can read the original Chinese version
or at least read up on books written by the authors above.
In the future, please post such questions/queries/doubts you have on
Feng Shui to our Free Advise Forum (http://myadviser.geomancy.net)
where everyone can benefit from our single replies rather than
through our e-mail address support@geomancy.net. We even have an
I-Ching conference in the forum, which would be appropriate for such
questions. If you do not have an account, simply create one
(http://login.geomancy.net)
I have answered your question this time, so as not to disappoint you
as I know that this subject and questions you are asking are NOT easy
to understand. However, I would appreciate that in the future you
post them to our My Adviser Forum instead. This not only promotes
learning it will also allow others like yourself who are seeking
answers to such question to be able to find it in the future.
Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee
Support@Geomancy.Net, support@geomancy.net on 09/01/2002
URL: http://www.geomancy.net
GEOMANCY.NET - Center for Applied Feng Shui Research
Tel: +65 95771103, Fax: +65 4810581
-- Original Message --@geomancy.net>
 

 

Quote

From: (Name removed)
Subject: Re: questions about
the yijing-Loshu square
Date:
Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:48:47 +0100
To: Support @ Geomancy.Net
Dear Mr. Lee,
thanks for your fast reply and
your instructions... to
clarify my problem with this
topic:
I know that my questions are
very technical - want to
understand a bit of
the physical technical
functions, but i am not a
scientific engnieer or
mathematic guy or something
like that..
so when i understand you in
the right way.
The loshu is connected with
the wen arrangement - cammann
Schuyler" The
origin of the Triagramm
Circles in Ancient China, the
museum of far Eastern
Antiqities Bulletin No 62
Stockholm 19990" says that
this is a big mistake
of history to think that, i
read so many literature, but
this is indead the
only author who said this everyone else
wrote that the wen cycle belongs to
the loshu the hetu to the Fuxi
arrangement.
How does the loshu functions then?
There are even and odd numbers - yin and
yang - yang is clockwise and yin is
counterclockwise. this is a fengh shui
message. does this also count for
the yijing (later heaven) when you speak
of movements.
so the numbers of the loshu represent
triagrams for expamle Kun= 2 and
Quian = 6
two triagrams form an hexagram and
within this you have a direction marked
as a loshu number .. for example Tui and
Tui = 7/7 is Hexagram 58
belongs to the loshu number 7 according
the eight houses in relation to the
loshu square.
you can categorise the 64 Hexagram to
the eight houses
for example 6 is (hexagram number
1,44,33,12,20,23,35,14)
1 is (29,60,3,63,49,55,36,7)
and so on..
but other people say this is wrong only
wetern thinking has nothing to do
with eastern origins:
6 is ( 1,12,25,6,33,44,13,10 hexagram)
or 1 is (5,8,3,29,39,48,63,60)
always the second triagram or line..
above the lower ..
What is true there ?
=================================
Movement in clockwise / counterclockwise
direction - cyclic interdependence
what does cause the movement the loshu
number (even/odd)-number polarity
or the triagram ? ( the sex in the wen
cycle, the lowest line as primary
basis as in the Fuxi)
or a micture of both?
when i have then two triagrams there can
be different options- as expressed
in the biagrams-
yin-yin, yang-yang yin-yang yang -yin)
first -second line..
yin-yin ( example loshu number:first
line/number, second line/number 2-8,
6-4) is countercklockwise ?
yang- yang (7-9, 1-3) vice versa?
what about yin-yang , yang- yin
composition?
Would be nice to hear from you soon .
Best wihes and regards from here
be well
Yours
name removed